Regarding the hearing;

When the story of Pat Tillman giving up a lucrative career and joining the Army came out Rummy wrote a memo which suggested, in essence, they use this as a propoganda tool and that they should keep track of Tillman, obviously to bring his story up when positive PR was needed.

Rummy obviously lost his desire to keep track of Tillman when word of his friendly fire death came out.

Of Tillman's death, Abazaid said (paraphrase); People were just trying to do the right thing and it didn't work out.

Abazaid should have been aksed what the "right thing" they were trying to do was.

Will the US Marshalls keep trying to track down the AWOL General who refused to show up?

The purpose of endless war (and the whole military industrial complex) is also the redistribution of wealth upward. They view the people in uniform as nothing more than suckers. They've been making money off the blood of middle and lower class Americans (not to mention the victims of our policies around the globe) for decades. This is not new, the Bush Administration's policies represent merely an escalation.

It is the elitist intent to sacrifice everyone not in the club to further the political and economic goals. To keep up the humane pretense in the various wars, our soldiers have to be portrayed as angels. Since everyone knows they're human, not heavenly, the lack of justice causes the reverse view---all soldiers are evil.

Covering up the facts of Tillman's death mean a killer is escaping justice.

What a bunch of shrill nonsense. Rumsfeld "chuckled [his] way through yesterday's hearing." What is the basis for this claim? Any video footage? A transcript?

I am so sick of these stupid "stories" that claim some outrageous behavior from administration officials and then when you read the story, it is just a rehash of the contempt (albeit well deserved) of the adminstration.

Oh, and the right wing blogs treated Tillman's death as a joke. Stop the presses! I have better things to do than give a crap about what is written on right wing blogs.

Get a frikking life and post something with some substance.

What???

So you're surprised?
That the majority of the honchos in this admin are chicken-hawks might be a reflection of their contempt for mixing with the underclasses?
Maybe you didn't read this site back in 2002 when a memo from Veterans Affairs was revealed stating a policy to keep costs down by not letting vets know they are covered for services.
I could fill this page, and you probably know it. This is just one more minor example of their utter contempt for, in this case, the military.

dc

This here is Waxman's statement from yesterday's hearing.

Reminders in it that the Army knew early on this was likely a friendly-fire incident; and also that the most important eye-witness account was fabricated.

And further, that one of the three officers who was informed early on that this was possibly friendly-fire - a Lt Gen Kensinger - refused to testify, was subpoenaed, and is now nowhere to be found.

Lastly, if you haven't seen this exchange between Kucinich and Rumsfeld, and just watch how Rummy bristles at the suggestion that Tillman's death was a snowjob.

I'm sorry Kucinich missed the opportunity to remind him that as SecDef the buck stopped with him over the misinformation... but the vicious response by Rumsfeld is little different to when he is confronted over things like arms' sales to Saddam in 1980s, so read into that what you will.

sully18
The behavior of Rumsfeld typifies the haughty attitude of the swindlers who have usurped power in our country.These criminals who call themselves patriots,who hide behind their lapel flag pins, and push their own brand of materialistic, fallacious Christianity,are very much as heartless as they are without honor.I hope that history will record the extent to which the Bush cadre of neoscum has turned back the clock with unfathomable dishonor.Their crowning achievement is the massacre in Iraq for which they will eventually be held in even lower esteem than I hold them now.These are truly men of no honor.

Thank YOU, Rik

I am not Davai, whoever that is.

Jeez, I didn't realize you guys had such tender sensibilities.

Sorry if anyone got so upset.

Let's not forget that the investigation revealed that Tillman was shot three times in the forhead, with closely spaced shots, possible only from close range. I'm surprised that we still call that "friendly fire". The proper word is either murder or assassination. If the administration didn't order that act I will be surprised.

Hoppy in Sacramento

I just assume that people who post here read the papers, watch television or listen to the news on NPR.
My mistake.

I suspect the assuming was not yours alone, he apparently assumed others had not perused the news. Whatever, assuming is often not the best practice.

Unfortunately for every American, the adversarial two party system makes everyone think that elections and politics are like a football game, where one side gets more points than the other and wins the game. But that is a bad analogy. Sure parties may struggle to set policy, agenda, and divide the revenue, but this winner take all -us against them-- approach makes every American lose. Government should not be a win/loose game. When a soldier dies and a mother asks for accountability, she does not automatically become the enemy. She is not trying to keep you from winning a touchdown. She wants to know how the boy she gave birth to died. Talk radio, more than any other influence in modern life is responsible for the prevalence if this dog eat dog approach to problem solving. For God's sake, we're a community, and we are all in this together. If we don't hang together then surely we will hang separately. Is there anybody left to care that the constitution is now nothing but toilet paper in this White House?

"If you talk about it, even the simplest thing becomes complex and incomprehensible." -Herman Hesse

You are so right, aMike.

Ever since the smell of sulfur began to rise from this tragedy, I've been hoping that somehow THIS incident will lead to impeachment for all of the gargoyles running the country. Something will, if there is a shred of justice left to grab onto.
The poetic beauty of Pat Tillman being the one to bring it about would be absolutely wonderful.

Grayson wrote these words to defend slavery in comparison to free labor.
JEEZ! Another couple of decades of "Reaganomics" by whatever name & it WILL describe free labor........

I don't know about that, Hoppy.  Homicide could be inspired locally rather than up the chain of command.  I'm remembering a certain NCO I knew in Vietnam.  His job was cutting orders for dead GIs to be shipped back to the states.  We were having a few beers, and I started questioning the accuracy of the body counts that DoD published.  The guy commenced to freak out completely, and honestly, I felt that if I pushed the issue further he would have jumped across the table and strangled me.

Which is another reason why I've always felt queasy about an all-volunteer armed forces.   It's easy to imagine someone getting so pissed with Tillman's "seditious comments" that homicide seemed to be appropriate response.

Neoboho

I am so sick of these stupid "stories" that claim some outrageous behavior from administration officials and then when you read the story, it is just a rehash of the contempt (albeit well deserved) OF the adminstration.

I think you mean "contempt FOR the Administration"
Although it can also be said that the administration has "contempt" for the American people. But in the latter case I would not parenthetically add ("well-deserved"). Unless you mean that the contempt of the administration for the American people is in fact well-deserved. Would you clarify please?

All agree that it was "friendly" fire. Then why don't we question the soldiers that did the firing? Seems like a logical step to me. If the pattern of bullets was such that it could have only happened close range, why is that not investigated?

I read a summary of the exchange between Rumsfeld and Kucinich that said Rummy chuckled and made a joke that if the Pentagon had a cover-up process, it was a bad one. Kucinich then laid into Rummy about how very good the cover-ups were and Rummy got all indignant.

Funny, in the only news report I saw of it, the Rumsfeld "joke" was cut out and it appeared that Kucinich was unjustly attacking poor old Rummy. It was a complete mischaracterization of the hearing and there was no focus at all on Tillman and the shameful behavior of the Pentagon. No one can defend the administration's manipulation of Tillman's life and story, so they try to change the subject.

. CBS has done a story on gangs within the military.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/28/eveningnews/main3107316.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3107316

They did not make the explicit distinction but they gave no evidence that gangs are a problem in the navy or air force, services where I expect that gangs are not a problem. The report spoke only of the army and marines. I would offer the speculation that the problem is mostly confined to a sub-set within those two services, that being those who joined and chose a combat specialty. In the army it would be the infantry.

There is a great deal of recognition of the loyalty and camaraderie among soldiers and it becomes a large part of the discussion when the topic is “why do they fight?”. The answer is revealed in a large part by understanding “why do they join”.

I invite people to think about the psychology of a young man in a gang in a tough city and compare it to that of a young soldier in Iraq. Why did he join, why does he give the gang his loyalty, and why is it something he would risk his life for. Remember that the soldier belongs to a self-selected group. I believe that group [broad brush warning] is made up largely of individuals who have many of the psychological and situational characteristics of young men who join gangs.

I think the old adage about no one hating war as much as a soldier is largely bullshit, at least for the eager young soldier who has yet to fight a war.

Our society and culture glorify war, our national mythology [I don’t use mythology to mean lie] glorifies war. Our mythology honors those who fight in wars. This has been taken to the ridiculous extreme of calling every single serviceman a “hero”.

Giving a young man a chance to go out and show his manhood, to test his mettle for himself